Welcome back to another episode of “Charisms for Catholics,” a journey dedicated to helping individuals discern their spiritual gifts. I’m your host, Jill Simons, Executive Director at Many Parts Ministries. In today’s episode, we’re thrilled to have Jamie Rathjen with us. Jamie is not only a co-host of the Hormone Genius podcast but also the owner of FIAT Institute and Guiding Star Center. Together, we delve deep into the topic of women and leadership.
Embracing Leadership Despite Early Discomfort
Jamie and I share a common charism of leadership. Interestingly, both of us have felt discomfort with attention and leadership roles early in our lives. Jamie had a significant reversion back to her Catholic faith during her college years—a transformative period that helped her embrace her charism. We both reflect on our past struggles with identity and low self-esteem, highlighting how these challenges were integral to shaping our leadership abilities.
Timing and Personal Growth in Leadership
One crucial point we discussed is the importance of timing and personal growth in utilizing one’s charism. Rushing into leadership roles without the necessary maturity and personal development can lead to pitfalls such as pride and false worth. Jamie stressed how dangerous it could have been if she had pursued her leadership charism prematurely. It’s a powerful reminder that growth is an essential part of effective leadership.
Filling Gaps in Women’s Healthcare
Another poignant part of our conversation revolved around the need for strong leadership in women’s healthcare. Jamie shared her journey of starting Guiding Star Cedar Valley, a healthcare center designed to meet the unique needs of women. This endeavor is a testament to her commitment to filling gaps in healthcare and providing holistic support for women.
Discerning a Charism of Leadership
For anyone discerning a charism of leadership, Jamie and I offered valuable advice. Look for external engagement and be open to opportunities that arise. Moreover, the transition from discernment to commitment isn’t always smooth. There will be struggles, but it’s essential to stay the course and develop the metaphorical muscles needed to lead effectively. As leaders, we must understand and embrace our charisms, recognizing the Holy Spirit’s vision and placing people within that vision.
Breaking Gender Stereotypes in Church Leadership
We also touched upon the topic of gender stereotypes related to charisms in the church. It’s crucial to let the Holy Spirit guide the assignment of charisms rather than adhering to gender stereotypes. Jamie’s experience of feeling called to leadership despite a lack of experience epitomizes this idea. The supernatural ability of leadership transcends gender, allowing the Holy Spirit to work through those who are open to His vision.
The Global Reach of the FIAT Institute
Jamie introduced the FIAT Institute, which integrates cycle charting and health coaching with the concept of feminine genius. This institute has grown globally, reflecting the universal need for such a resource. The hormone coaching program, in particular, has made a significant impact, empowering women to understand and embrace their natural biological rhythms.
Community and Support Among Female Leaders
Throughout our conversation, we emphasized the comfort and sense of community that comes from mutual understanding among leaders. This is especially true for women, who often face unique challenges in leadership roles. Jamie and I both find solace and strength in connecting with other leaders, particularly through organizations like the Stent Network, a professional group for Catholic founders and professionals.
We encourage our listeners to visit manypartsministries.com for resources on charism assessment and discernment. The journey of leadership, especially for women, is both challenging and rewarding. By understanding and embracing our charisms, we can fulfill the roles that the Holy Spirit has envisioned for us.
Thank you for tuning in to this insightful discussion. Until next time, stay engaged and trust in the spiritual gifts that guide us.
Jill Simons:
Hello, and welcome to Charisms for Catholics. My name is Jill Simons, and I’m the executive director at Many Parts Ministries, where we equip the body of Christ by helping people learn about and discern their charisms, which is really another word for spiritual gifts. When you discern your charisms, you’re able to see how the Holy Spirit is already active in your life and where he is inviting you to further build the church. Let’s dive in.
Jill Simons:
Hello, and welcome to today’s episode of the Charisms for Catholics podcast. I am so excited to get to just have a conversation with a woman who is so similar to me, who has become a friend over the course of the last year. Jamie and I, met last summer when she enrolled as a student in our program to form Careism Coaches, and it was there were so many similarities between us right from the get go that it’s so exciting to come together today and have a conversation about careism that we actually have in common, which is leadership. So we’re gonna be talking today specifically about leadership and how it shows up really in women specifically, but if you’re a man, don’t turn it off. There’s going to be things for you to take from the conversation as well, and what preconceived ideas we have about what that has to look like or who can operate in that charism and the ways that the holy spirit wants to really break that down. So I am so excited to welcome to the podcast, Jamie Rochi. She is, going to share all about herself and the amazing things that she is doing.
Jamie Rathjen:
Awesome. Well, thank you, Jill, for having me on. And it’s true. I know right when we started the process with you as hormone coaches or not hormone well, true, as hormone coaches. So me and 2 other gals in the Fiat Institute who are my TAs to train women to be hormone coaches through the Fiat Institute when, we were going through your process of careism training. I just thought, oh my gosh. Jill and I have so much in common, so I’m glad to chitchat with you today. Jill, so as I just said, I own FIAT Institute.
Jamie Rathjen:
It’s an organization that trains women to be hormone coaches. I’m also the founder of a guiding star center. So if you haven’t heard of the guiding star project, be sure to check them out. Their whole mission is to spread holistic women’s health care across the country. And then also I’m the the co, host and cofounder of the Hormone Genius podcast. So if your listeners love podcasts, which they clearly do, then, you know, go over and listen to the Hormone Genius podcast if you love the body and women’s hormones. So I’m just a total hormone nerd. I’m a Catholic, and I can say that I had, like, a pretty strong reversion back to my faith when I was in college.
Jamie Rathjen:
And growing up very cradle Catholic, you know, I kind of just was a very dutiful young girl. I didn’t get into a ton of trouble. I didn’t really want a ton of attention on me, and I just, you know, would try my best to not be in the forefront. And I think some of that came from being the middle child, even though so in the middle of 5 kids, even though people often say, oh, the middle kid wants all the attention because, you know, they’re in the middle and I’m like, I don’t know about that. I kinda still hide in the bundle of my siblings. It seems to be a comfortable spot for me. But I’d be surprised because Jill and I think this is something we have in common. In in grade school and middle school and high school, you know, I’d be chosen for to, like, lead something.
Jamie Rathjen:
So and I wouldn’t necessarily volunteer to lead even though I might have wanted to. I would be chosen to lead. So, you know, I’d be, like, chosen for, you know, a a class office. You know? So I think I was the secretary or something. And, I was like the leader of the, you know, the track team and all these things. And so I think that it was a charisma I didn’t even know I had. And it started to fully develop more so when I became more confident, I think, with just who I was as a woman. So, Jill, I know, again, you and I have that in common because didn’t you say when you were growing up, you also felt like maybe it was maybe wrong.
Jamie Rathjen:
I I know that was how I thought. I thought, man, I don’t think I should be calling attention to myself. Even though, again, I might have had a thought that I thought was an answer to a problem. You know? So I’m so used to podcasting back and forth and having these conversations, but, Jill, I have a question for you. Like, tell me about what that was like for you when you were in grade school.
Jill Simons:
Yeah. I am so happy to just have the conversation back and forth. I definitely I think I was more extroverted and kind of ready to put myself out there on the leading side of things, but there was and I think this is a tricky thing for Catholics in general where we have this awareness that we don’t wanna just wholesale adopt something that’s kind of culturally positive. So, of course, growing up in the nineties and, like, the girl power movement and things like that, there was this sense that, like, we kinda wanna take what is good about that and leave the rest, but as a child not really knowing what was good about that and what the rest to leave was. Because I obviously knew that women couldn’t be priests and things like that. I didn’t I didn’t have any interest in being a priest. I wasn’t upset about that, but it was just kind of one of those, you know, I don’t see concretely where women fit in terms of leading things just within what I’m observing about the church. So that wasn’t something that was experienced for me as, like, oh, this is bad, and I wanna change it.
Jill Simons:
It was just like, oh, well, I don’t really know what it would even look like for a woman to be more of a leader within the space. And I had a lot of desire to step up and lead things, and I acted on it pretty frequently, but it was especially, like, in college and as a young adult where it started to that lie started to creep in that it was going to be kind of the cross for me to want to lead and then never be, like, given the opportunity or never be the one that was asked or given the space to be able to lead, and for me I know that a huge part of that was because the timing was not correct for me to be able to lead because of how damaged my identity was at that time, that that would have been something that maybe, who knows, there could have been some positive fruit in other people, but it would not have ever had positive fruit in me from the place I was doing it at where I was just needing to derive my worth and my value from how I was perceived by people I was leading. As as we know, that’s a road to a whole lot of crazy really quickly if you’re hanging your self worth on your the perception of the people that you have to hire and fire and do with all the other things with. So so it just wasn’t possible for me to lead the way that I do now from that place because it was just a protection, really. It was a grace that I received to know that I had that charism, but to also have a pin put in it so that the the things that God knew needed to happen in me could happen before he was like, okay. Now we’re doing this.
Jamie Rathjen:
Yeah. I love that, and I think that’s a really important reminder for all of us as we think about our charisms is to think about that identity first. And much like you, except for for me, it was kind of the sense of, like, self loathing self loathing or self very low self esteem. And because I didn’t know my identity in Christ until I started again getting into college and really starting to explore my faith and call it my own, I didn’t again begin to see how I could add value or how the holy spirit could be working through me. So I think that’s a really interesting point you make, Jill, that it could have been to your more, like, more of a a prideful destruction, let’s just say, if we had pushed through if you had pushed through. And for me, maybe it would have been, yeah, kind of also a a false sense of worth, which would have been dangerous for me at the time.
Jill Simons:
Yeah. Because what it sounds like is the 2 and there it’s really the two main lies that I do hear people talk about coming against leadership in particular, which is, like, the low self worth, I don’t think that I would actually lead well, or, like, the perception of others, I don’t feel like people see that I have, you know, value to give and things like that because they’re not making space. I don’t perceive they’re making space for me to leave, or I’m not the person that’s being asked to leave. And when I did lead some things when I was younger, there was a lot of conflict, which I perceived as then failure in leadership versus conflict is a part of leadership, and this is something that we develop the chops to be able to work through, and we’re not judging the value of leadership based on is it conflict free or not. We’re looking at what is vision ability and what is the ability to kind of place people within that. So kind of that misunderstanding also of how I would expect something like that to manifest.
Jamie Rathjen:
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. And even still now, I sometimes feel this feeling of, man, okay, if I’m going to be in a group and I’m not the leader and, again, it took me forever to not feel like I was being prideful for having that thought. You know? I’m like, okay. I’m being invited to participate in something, and I’m the participant. Who is Jamie when she’s the participant? Like, I have to go through this whole mental, like, process of, like, mentally preparing, being chill.
Jamie Rathjen:
Like and it for some reason and I and what your listeners don’t see is, like, both you and I are nodding our head, and we’re smiling real wide because it’s true. Yeah. And those right? And so it’s it’s interesting because because I feel more comfortable as a leader now, and I know it’s because of the charism of leadership, I know that that makes sense now. But if I hadn’t gone through that process of discerning my charisms, I would still just be in a major sense of, like, confusion or even sometimes if I am in a group and they’re giving instruction, it’s like I can’t comprehend. It’s like I have the most difficult time even, like, comprehending leadership from others, which is strange to say, but it is true. And I don’t know if you’ve had that in the past, if that if that’s ever something you experienced, Jill.
Jill Simons:
I think that I respond really strongly to being led well because that’s kind of like, you know, to to, like, borrow a phrase, like, game recognizes game, like, where it’s like I
Jamie Rathjen:
That’s such a good point.
Jill Simons:
Where it just like, yes. I respect your ability to lead. You can lead me. I’m okay with this. You know? But same thing if I’m in a group where there’s, you know, no leadership, devaluing of leadership, not understanding that leadership is important within that setting or something like that, I’m just like, either I’m gonna have to leave or we’re going the police is going to be involved because I’ve missed it it is a visceral reaction, and and I think a lot of people have that. And it’s interesting because this is something we started talking about more is kind of this window into our potential charisms when you haven’t discerned, but then also kind of that continued reinforcement when you have discerned about what drives you crazy. Yes. About these things that there’s just such a low threshold for because the ability when it’s augmented with those graces and becomes supernatural is so beyond what other people are operating in that it really is, I think, one of the biggest ways that we grow then personally spiritually and using our charisms is, like, okay.
Jill Simons:
They don’t have this, and and I can’t be mad at them about that. You know? This is not what they have been given. And it’s interesting because the people who are most emotionally affected by it, in my experience, are mercy and leadership, which is really interesting. Mercy people get so just angry sometimes when people don’t see the kind of value in the marginalized and things like that, and there’s kind of this visceral action reaction, I should say. And then same with leadership when there’s, you know, poor leadership or something like that. There’s just a visceral reaction to that.
Jamie Rathjen:
You know, when you hear something and you think ding, ding, that was it. That’s exactly it. You just put words exactly to my thought. Because I would, again, always just think, oh, I’m just I can’t be led. I can’t be led. But, no, I can. I I can. I can be led, but it is true.
Jamie Rathjen:
I do need a very strong leader. I need to respect them. You know? I need to feel heard by them. And all of it is very subconscious, it seems, you know, where it’s more of a sense or a feeling that you get. And it makes sense. Right? Because charisms, holy spirit, often it’s a way of being supernatural effect, all this stuff. So I love that you said that because I don’t even know if I had full clarity really on that until you said it, and then that makes a lot of sense.
Jill Simons:
I really enjoy, like, one of the professional organizations that I’m involved in. Are you involved with Stent, the Stent Network?
Jamie Rathjen:
No. But I’ve heard about it.
Jill Simons:
Okay. Yes. So it’s it’s for Catholic founders and professionals, and, it is just, like, full of people who I’m like, respect the heck out of you. Respect the heck out of you, and it’s just wonderful to be with so many kind of peers in leadership, I feel like. So I’m going to their summit for the first time in the fall, which I am so so excited about, because I think that then that becomes how we have the opportunity to kind of, level up that nature that Grace is building upon, because we obviously have soft skills as well that are a part of leadership that allow us so for instance, your, you know, knowledge of the human body and things like that that empower you to then be able to lead in your specific lane of vision really well, my knowledge of charisms and things like that that helps with this lane. And so just being able to receive more of that kind of, like, the different ways that other leaders have really dialed in leading well, team management, and things like that that aren’t necessarily something that I’ve spent as much time on. And and that kind of speaks to a question we get a lot, which is, like, what can I do to kind of further open up the charisms? And I think a big part of it is how can we just build the the natural personal skills that feed into it that are kind of a part of the package deal of it.
Jamie Rathjen:
Mhmm. Totally. And there is some sort there’s a sense of community and comfort, especially for women. When you’re with other leaders and you have that and you think, I don’t have to worry. Because there’s I think there’s a lot of worry. I don’t know about you, Jill, but in my mind, sometimes I’m like, okay. I’m around people who might not be in, you know, the a leadership role, which is totally fine, but how am I gonna communicate about my updates in life where they care about it? Like, you know? Like, I how do I communicate that? Or do I communicate it at all? And often, I don’t, you know, and maybe I shouldn’t in a way. So there’s some sense of, like, you know, my guards can be lowered when I’m communicating with other people because we kinda just understand the the goals we have.
Jamie Rathjen:
And doesn’t mean that we’re not putting our family first. It means we are, but it’s just a little you know, it’s a both end where, you know, obviously, the order of our identity first and then our vocation, and then the fruit can bear from that. But, yeah, sometimes I feel like if if someone doesn’t understand that and you’re communicating with them, we can just kinda sense it and maybe, you know, it kinda can get to us at times. So there’s some comfort in communicating with people
Jill Simons:
so And I think that there’s a lot there can be fear for people with a especially, like, as women with a charism of knowledge or or, I’m sorry, not or leadership or maybe men with a charism that’s, like, what maybe is perceived to be more passive, something like intercession or something like that where there’s it’s not really more passive, but it feels like the perception there that’s kind of, you know, inappropriate gender matching with the characters, when in reality, that that’s a nonissue. All any person can receive any of the 24, and it’s totally up to Holy Spirit what he wants to do. And because there are places in the church especially that I think there’s kind of sunk in these ways about what something should be or how it should be. And some of those we need. You know? How the mass should be? Yes. We need the mask to be the same everywhere, every time. We need to not get creative with that, but there’s also things like what, you know, is the appropriate work for women within the church or what should the interpersonal dynamics look like within an individual marriage. You know, as long as we’re meeting the church guidelines of being free, fruitful, total, faithful within a marriage, You know, for me, specifically, I have these very, like, front facing leadership type charisms, whereas my husband is an excellent worker, does what he does extremely well, but every time because he does what he does so well, they’re always like, let’s put you in a leadership position.
Jill Simons:
He’s like, please stop. I I I am meant to be the person who is, like, a very dedicated, faithful, excellent follower. And when you take me out of that, then all this stuff isn’t happening, but it gets elevated to these positions because he’s hardworking and he’s a man.
Jamie Rathjen:
Yeah. Right.
Jill Simons:
And he’s always the first to say, like, no, but this female teacher that would be great, and I see this in her because he listens to me talk all the time, and, you know, at least always calling out stuff in other people, but, I think that getting comfortable with the fact that leadership could be the thing as a female is a hard thing. And so I’d love to hear about your journey as an adult, kind of how that comfort level got kind of sunk into you.
Jamie Rathjen:
Yeah. Yeah. I think it truly was catapulted when I, started Guiding Star Cedar Valley, which is one of the Guiding Star Centers as I mentioned earlier. And, you know, again, I when I came across this idea of maybe getting a women’s health care center started in my community, I I I wanted to do it, but I shied away. Well, no. Couldn’t possibly be me. You know? But I think the Lord is calling me to start this. I didn’t have any experience as a director.
Jamie Rathjen:
I didn’t have any experience in nonprofit world. I went to school for health. I had no experience in, like, any sort of nonprofit management whatsoever. Although my dad is an entrepreneur, and he always told me even when I was young, he’s like, you’re gonna be an entrepreneur. I’m like, how do you see that? I wanted him to tell me I’d be like a good teacher or a counselor or something. Nope. You’re gonna be an entrepreneur. I’m like, okay, dad.
Jamie Rathjen:
Whatever. But he was right because when I was put in that role, it just things started to happen, like, spiritually within me, but even externally with others. And so the board began, we started our hard work and ripples started to affect not only the board, but also our community. And it was just a beautiful thing to be put in a spot where I had zero experience, and all I could do is open up my hands to the Lord and say, Lord, like, 0 clue. You do the work. And so I experienced literally firsthand, for sure, it could not have been me. It was the holy spirit working through me. You know? And I learned some tough lessons about ways to not have a meeting.
Jamie Rathjen:
Meeting should not go for 3 hours. You know? Meetings are far less now when I lead them. But so I it’s like I had to learn all these little extra things, but it was really through getting this nonprofit started. And in that process, you know, as as I as Guiding Star started to become more, you know, I would say successful and more self sufficient self sufficient, I felt called out of that space because now things were work working well. So then God called me to the next thing. So I do feel like God calls me toward vision. I feel like once vision has been set and everything, there’s no drama. It’s like I want where the fire goes or I you know, both in my passion, but also where there’s a lot of energy needed.
Jamie Rathjen:
And then once it’s calm and fine, then it’s like the Lord keeps bringing me. So, again, I think that’s definitely the, the charisma of leadership that comes through.
Jill Simons:
Yeah. Absolutely. So how long has how long has it been since you started that first guiding star?
Jamie Rathjen:
It was in 2017.
Jill Simons:
Okay. Okay. Awesome. So that’s what? Like, 6 years, 7 years? Yeah. 7 years now.
Jamie Rathjen:
Yeah.
Jill Simons:
Okay. That’s awesome. And I I find the exact same thing to be true because, you know, for those following along at home reviewing the idea of what specifically the charism of leadership is, it’s not the automatic supernatural ability to run a meeting like Jamie alluded to. Right. It’s it’s the supernatural ability to see what the vision is that the Holy Spirit has for something and then also to place people within that vision. And I know that now you are forming people to be able to execute a larger vision than what was kind of the local chapter of guard guiding star. Is that correct? Yeah.
Jamie Rathjen:
Yep. Yep. So, the word fiat means a lot to me, and it probably means a lot to your listeners, maybe. And if it doesn’t, if you don’t know what that word means, go look it up. It was Mary’s response to the angel Gabriel. It means let it be done to me according to your word. So the angel Gabriel was a messenger, said, you’re meant to be the mother of Christ. She said, fiat bonds has to us.
Jamie Rathjen:
So that word fiat means a lot to me. So Fiat Institute is the organization I formed, and it was really formed from the gaps I noticed just in general, like within the Catholic community, within the health care community, just in general. And as a Catholic, we value, of course, fertility awareness, natural family planning, like the church honors and sees the importance of understanding our chart. And I know that can be a very difficult thing sometimes, but, NFP, so natural family planning. Okay? So as Catholics, we understand that. But then in the outside the Catholic world, we understand and honor, like, why living a healthy lifestyle is important. Right? But nowhere do we really see, as far as I can tell, that these 2 are melded together, like cycle charting and our health. So what if there was an organization that formed cycle awareness meets health coaching, call it hormone coaching.
Jamie Rathjen:
Right? So where the hormone genius meets the feminine genius. So hormone coaches coach with their feminine genius in mind. We coach using the beautiful skills of our and the beautiful gifts of our womanhood, but also with the beautiful charisms of the holy spirit. So this again is new within PIAD Institute because we were just trained, and it’s something that we bring into the launch of the business launching for hormone coaches. So it’s very important that, you know, as you’re building a business, if you’re a Catholic woman or man and you’re building a business, it is super important to know how is the holy spirit calling you to use the charism to build the church, to grow the community of church. And so, yeah, now we’re kind of more virtual. And actually, Jill, you know what? I can say this for sure because it’s a 100% happening. We’re global.
Jamie Rathjen:
Yay. Yeah. Cool. So this cohort, we have a gal from Australia and Brazil and Canada. Wow. And last one, we had 3 Canada. But that’s just a fun thing to say.
Jill Simons:
Like, that’s too international. I know we have our first coach from Canada, this cohort at many parts too. So but for Canada feels like cheating for some reason because it’s like they’re just right there.
Jamie Rathjen:
It can’t be borders. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Darn it.
Jill Simons:
That is awesome. I am so happy for the growth that you guys are having because if you’re a woman, you know how much that this is something that everybody’s like, thank god. Like, every everyone I know has something that feels out of whack, and having a way to address that so often comes down to, like, are you gonna have the limited version of, you know, your doctor who might be have some more options, but they’re gonna look at you like you’re insane because you’re charting, or are you gonna go to someone who literally only knows about your chart and they can’t help you with anything else? So being able to fill that gap is just really wonderful and exciting, so I’m so happy that you guys are growing in that space. If you if you had a piece of advice to leave with, like, people discerning a charisma of leadership in general, especially people who feel like there’s big things that that has to mean, so they’re ascribing, a meaning to that. So we’ve had several men actually reach out recently that are just like, I have this charism of leadership, but I know that I’m not called to be a priest. And they’re like, you know, it feels like those things can’t be true. Like, they would have to be a priest if they have a charism of leadership or women who are just kind of struggling to figure out how that fits. So if you just had a piece of advice you give to people in the discernment process, what would that be?
Jamie Rathjen:
Gosh. I would say when you do take a leadership position in whatever capacity, if it’s in a volunteer group or a church group, whatever, like, what do you see happen outside of you? And what do you notice inside of you? But also our own mind can play little tricks on us. You know, we’re, like, an impostor syndrome. But when we look outside of us, do you see people being engaged? Do you see them being energized? You know, do they do you see them actually doing the work that maybe they’re being assigned? That’s step number 1. Step number 2, I would say something I noticed, which would be advice for others, is in a leadership role, you know, people might say, oh, Jamie. Wow. You know, you you know, wow. You’ve grown or, like, this business sure has taken off.
Jamie Rathjen:
And I think it is literally the holy spirit. I am telling you. Things people just come my way. And it’s crazy to say it, and it seems really strange, perhaps. But, truly, I think in that charismatic leadership, if people come your way like, let’s say you need something, like, for instance, I didn’t know that I needed to translate my information to Spanish, But a woman who’s incredible came in my way, and she’s in this cohort, and she’s like, I will translate all of your things. I would be a silly billy. And I was like, no. I’m like, that is the holy spirit.
Jamie Rathjen:
Thank you, Lord, for guiding me. So I think that also happens. Like, God gives us little gifts no matter what your charism is that confirms and affirms you and what you were being called to do. And I think it comes again not only in our service to others, but in the way others respond to us.
Jill Simons:
Yeah. I think that’s so true. And I think that when you’re in discernment just I’ll just add here be as kind of just additional information because what Jamie shared is completely true, how there’s, like, just the you know, people come your way and things come your way and opportunities work out. But then there’s also once you’ve moved out of discernment into really, like, I know that this is my charism, that is also when there can be more struggles, like the 3 hour meeting isn’t gonna work and, you know, things like that where, you typically, people see during discernment those consolations and those, like, verifications are really, really clear and strong, but then when we move into commitment, this is kind of like, okay. We’re gonna start taking the training wheels off, and you have these constant consolations that you are in the right place typically, but it also doesn’t mean that it’s like free from issue, which I just want to mention because that’s another thing we’ve had questions about. People are like, I thought this was it, and now it’s hard, and now I’m not sure anymore. When you know, stay the course, be be at peace, like, things do start to get real sometimes, but you can continue watching and really believing that those things, like you’re talking about, Jamie, those people coming your way and those opportunities are gonna continue coming.
Jamie Rathjen:
Right. Because we are bodies, obviously, and there are metaphorical muscles that we haven’t strengthened yet. You know? So while we may realize or know or discern okay. I’m I’m discerning if this carism is is for me. Okay. And now I’m testing it and now I’m committing to it. It doesn’t make our muscles wrong if we haven’t been exercising them. So, like, my meeting muscle my meeting muscle was really weak.
Jamie Rathjen:
I had to exercise that skill so I could be a a more effective leader. Yeah.
Jill Simons:
You know,
Jamie Rathjen:
because we’re flesh and bone and we have those, you know, weaknesses and we and I think it also is a part of the humility too in that, in that discernment, process of just knowing, okay. I’m human. What kind of metaphorical muscles do I need to really strengthen so that I can truly steward this charisma, you know, and allow it to to work through me.
Jill Simons:
Yep. I totally agree. Well, thank you so much for being on with us this week, Jamie. It was such a joy to talk to you. I hope that you and all of our listeners have a wonderful rest of your day.
Jamie Rathjen:
Alright. Thanks, Jill.
Jill Simons:
Thanks so much for joining us on today’s episode of Charisms for Catholics. If you would like to learn more about your charisms or begin your own discernment journey, head to our website at manypartsministries.com where you can download our free pdf guide to all 24 charisms and also begin your own journey by taking our charisms assessment.
